who won the war of 1812 and who lostdivinity 2 respec talents

Preceding unsigned comment added by TJ13090 (talk contribs) 03:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC), (I have made this section in hopes that the British and or Canadians can explain why they think they won the war, Before posting remember the great US victories of Lake Champlian and New Orleans in which the Americans stopped the final two invasions of the United States.) Americas success in the assertion of its independence from the British also makes them insist that they won the war. fuzzzybear 6 yr. ago. When the War of 1812 began, the Indigenous Confederacy took Detroit quickly and without casualties. How did the War of 1812 end? 'Status quo ante bellum' does not describe the outcome of this war. The US could not push into Canada and suffered more defeats than victories. Only 29 years after the American War for Independence, Great Britain, and the United States again found themselves embroiled . The nation [US] was unable to conquer Canada or to achieve any of the maritime goals for which it was contending. An exhausted, demoralised, starving and ill-equipped Jacobite army launched an uphill attack against British government redcoats, well drilled, well trained, well equipped with guns, cannons and flanking forces. The Chesapeake had become famous when the HMS Leopard attacked the ship off Cape Henry in 1807 looking for deserters. They had already given in on the impressment issue, but that came about too late to prevent the war. Deathlibrarian (talk) 02:56, 16 March 2009 (UTC), Whilst I am happy for your contribution (as a Brit), and won't be replacing the NPOV tag, I still believe this article to be biased, and not representing the views of Canada, and many Canadian and British Historians. THUS being the reason why the page should change and stat British victory as not stating this seems wrong and a bit bias 92.30.146.187 (talk) 22:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC). So just drop it, theres no point in bring up these points in the name of truth because American Editors which rule this article will never let the truth through because frankly, they can't comply with Wikipedia neutrality rule. Canada won the War of 1812, U.S. historian admits In a relatively rare admission for an American scholar, a leading U.S. historian who authored a provocative new tome about North American. unsuccessfully attempted two separate attacks on Canada, lost the support of several states and local militias who disagreed with the unilateral declaration of war. So who tried to do what, and who came closest to successfully fulfilling their pre-war aims? (88.111.102.70 (talk) 18:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)), Any more of this and the whole deal goes to who won the war. The war lasted from 1812 to 1815, although a peace treaty was signed in 1814. Wars of Independence, the Mexican-American War, the Franco-Prussian War or World War One), which do include significant changes in territory, finance, sovereignty or policy. The assumption that the British were arming hostile Indians: from the viewpoint of the British, they were protecting the Indians from the settlers (and there is the argument that the arming of the indians was simply trade). Deathlibrarian (talk) 08:48, 13 March 2009 (UTC) These two are the only books written by Brits on the war of 1812, presumably there are Canadian books that support the British viewpoint as well. From the point of view of the British, the war is, quite literally a footnote in their struggle against Napoleon - "The overriding objective of the British government was to secure the defeat of France, and all else was subordinated to this aim. The opponent, the Royal Navy, was well trained and well-equipped and was the greatest naval power in the world. Coming back to this, I agree, it's all a rather pointless argument. The war began and ended with almost comical communication foul-ups common at that point in history. The UK also changed their interpretation of the law around 1807, where they regarded neutral ships as an extension of the country's Sovereignity and so should not be boardedand I believe that in fact legally they should not have boarded the Chesapeake. Mainly because Wikipedia is not neutral and never will be. Much of the American navy was destroyed at the end of the war, and the blockade had a stranglehold on the American economy which devastated agricultural imports. Not wanting to get into an argument, our own historians will settle for a draw. The US would have been reincorporated into the British Empire as what usually happened when Britain won a war back then. Lucas's main message is that while the British certinaly didn't achieve great military feats, the main result of the war was victory for Canada, in repelling the invasion and asserting itself. Tirronan (talk) 07:32, 31 March 2008 (UTC), Diplomatically, the US fared much better than it deserved considering the circumstances when the Treaty was negotiated, albeit the repulse at New Orleans probably would've resulted in the same terms.Cw1865 (talk) 14:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC), Considering the odds and numbers involved in the expedition, 2000+ casualties out of an 11,000 man expeidition, New Orleans was certainely a defeat. The historians I have named all say this - I will have the quotes here, I just need the last one from Hickey (he discusses the US loss in "Don't give up the ship" his most recent book) out of the library again. Preceding unsigned comment added by TJ13090 (talk contribs) 03:27-07:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC), You're logic defies its self all over the place. Each party had its allies supporting it. Here is the bias. All maps, graphics, flags, photos and original descriptions 2023 worldatlas.com. I also don't agree with the supposition that "In addition to the position that one, or the other, side "won," there is broad agreement among editors (as among historians) that both sides benefitted". I'm sure you can see its only fair that the page reflects the International opinion, not just that of the US. Foremost American authority Donald hickey also states your view(bargaining chip) is myth. A painting showing a US ship capturing a British ship in the War of 1812. And while Anglophiles like to point out that the Battle of New Orleans occurred after Ghent, the Treaty had not been ratified (thus the war was still on). I please ask you to do the same and look at this evidence which I have shown since the beginning. Most other war pages have simply "X military victory", no political or diplomatic victory, just military, which I hope we can agree that the British did achieve. Both schools of thought on the war need to be addressed, to remove US bias. Narson, we are discussing bias here, not debating who won the war. The war was the national war of Canada* It did more than any other event or series We shall drive the British from our continent. Indeed, one of the aims of the Treaty of Ghent sought by the British was to ensure that protection. Particularly, anyone from Britain or Canada? The War of 1812 (18 June 1812 - 17 February 1815) was fought by the United States of America and its indigenous allies against the United Kingdom and its own indigenous allies in British North America, with limited participation by Spain in Florida. Wellington was pretty straight forward on the fact that if the Empire couldn't defeat the US in the revolution then it would have even less result 30 plus years later as American was a much stronger country then. The two views held by different historians are perspectives taken from differnet viewpoints, with different criteria. Britain clearly won a military victory in the War of 1812; its just as clear as the solid fact America lost the Vietnam War, and yet they deny it to the point of making them selves look foolish and rather childish, often getting very aggressive with these sorts of arguments. The War of 1812, although it was officially declared in 1812, actually began in 1776. And the British writers that have have enough expertise to have written a book on the war of 1812 have come to the conclusion that it was a British victory. Thus I don't think this can be can used in the big picture of things to stat the war was not a British victory. British military victory: Also, Will Arnett implied it was Canada on television. The War of 1812 brought the United States onto the world's stage in a conflict that ranged throughout the American Northeast, Midwest, and Southeast, into Canada, and onto the high seas and Great Lakes. Overall the war was a draw because both sides completed their main objectives. Any more of Tirronan's high handed and dictatorial control freakery and we are going to have to explain to him that Wikipedia depends on consensus. The point is that British Historians writing about the war believe they won it, and US authors writing about the war believe it was a draw. This isn't a war that lends itself to a victor very easy and I have looked at this from many directions. As almost all work on the war of 1812 seems to point to this. As for your opinions on Latimer and Benn, I can assure you I have similiar feelings about historians that say the US did not lose the war, but that's our own perspectives. Seems hard to believe that this had been the point of instigation of anti-British rebellion 40 years earlier. The American perspective was that it was a draw. Andrew Jackson was elevated to hero status for his victory at the Battle of New Orleans. (3) most of all there is no evidence that the US secured its honor as Andrew lambert states in his book that this entirely a myth .Plus what do you mean by British dictation? ~ Stateroftheobvious~ 26th October 2009 Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.9.139.98 (talk) 12:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC), Yes, while it is being discussed, it should have one - I agree Deathlibrarian (talk) 01:21, 27 October 2009 (UTC), I would submit that it is only your non-stop single issue campaigning that you have to see a US loss/British-Canadian win to be happy that appears to be the debate. Deathlibrarian (talk) 07:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC), I guess two things here - while its interesting that you suggest it, thats not really how its normally done in infoboxes. At the end of the war British forces occupied parts of Maine, at the invitation of collaborators in Massachusetts. If i've missed any reasons, please inform me. Lets get rid of the nationalistic bias in case in this article, please, and reflect both sides. Battle of Leipzig In 1812, Napoleon led a disastrous invasion of Russia in which his army was forced to retreat and suffered massive casualties. In. I have had to insert British views, and they have been constantly removed. As for Impressment, as far as I can ascertain, the British navy stopped Impressment on foreign ships before the war in 1807 (The Chesapeake being the last - if you can find later, please let me know). If you tie this in with Latimer, and certain Canadian writers, as well as the general thoughts within Canadian current thinking, and the thoughts of British Politicians at the time, there is two divergent streams of thought about the War of 1812, here, clearly. Preceding unsigned comment added by TJ13090 (talk contribs) 03:38, 18 May 2009 (UTC). *Prevent the Native tribes from arming and condensing into one nation. He states, definitely, that the US failed miserably. A draw, just because the rest of the world says so. But I think that the infobox is just trying to give the uninterpreted, unmediated, undisputed results: that in terms of territory, population, jurisdiction, reparations or security, the nations involved had indeed returned to the status quo ante bellum when signing the Treaty of Ghent. The British recognized American citizenship, and ceased "impressing" (essentially, kidnapping) American sailors on the high seas, and forcing them to serve in His Majesty's navy. Actually, Dwalrus, we were discussing British books specifically on the war of 1812, as opposed to general history works. "What did the war accomplish? Yes, the British retreat to Mobile, AL - but before the war this was owned by Spain, in this sense, the British aren't going there to cause 'mischief' per se. If you can't find a historian of serious repute from this century you find one of the last, and not much of one at that. THUS USA QUESTIONABLY WANTED CANADA. *The Americans surrendered an entire army at Detroit, which collapsed the American war machine for a while. Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.76.13.95 (talk) 20:11, 25 February 2008 (UTC), I believe this goes to the who won the war section please take that discussion there. Instead of standing up to their oppressive government and re-claiming their constitutional rights as natural persons under the law, these ill-informed apologists waste everyone's time by pushing aggressively biased and ill-informed points of view and completely distorting the fundamental principle of neutral point of view expounded by Wikipedia. After the American Revolution, the United States and Great Britain were hardly on good terms. In June 1812, the United States declared war on Great Britain, citing among its grievances the practice of removing sailors from American merchant ships and forcing them to serve in the British. You are in a minority Tirronan. The majority opinion about something does not make it so. The fight against Britain's allied Indian tribes and the Spanish was more decisive (successful). While once again you keep saying the exact same things again and again which have no truth or evidence(shouldn't happen on Wikipedia). They pretty much lost everything. Deathlibrarian (talk) 08:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC), Rjensen, we are not actually here to debate who won or lost, our personal opinions are not relevant. Two books written by Brits that say that the War was a victory for Canada. Britain was already addressing the American grievances, but that was unknown. The Infobox should reflect the text. When state governors are telling the Federal President that state militia will not operate outside of the state; nor cross into Canada; it seriously calls into question the ability of the early Republic to act cohesively for any purpose.Cw1865 (talk) 05:12, 31 March 2008 (UTC) Multiple times you claim the Americans won the war, and then the war was a draw. That is how injustices are created, when a majority oppresses a minority, and even more so when a minority are 100% rightOk that s kinda silly but it still remains valid. The Battle of Powder River was fought on March 17th, 1876 in what is now the U.S. state of Montana. I believe, due to how the war was going, the British could have easily won the war if the Treaty of Ghent had not been signed. In response to RJensen, I don't have Latimer's book (yet), but it seems that he regards it as a British Victory, according to the book being discussed in these reviews: http://www.newsfromnowhere.org.uk/books/DisplayBookInfo.php?ISBN=9780674025844, http://www.andrewlownie.co.uk/books/latimer.jon/1812.shtml *Neither side made many territorial gains; the war ended with some British territory in American posession, while the Southern British Army held some territory in Mobile. Did the War of 1812 have popular support? Whenever this question comes up, look at what the prewar missions were for each side and who came closest to achieving them. here are reliable and verifiable sources to back up my point [1][2][3].Now I think it would be right if the results section was changed to strategic british victory. had her trade routes disrupted and international trade brought to a virtual standstill, was nearly bankrupted in the process and ran the risk of a currency collapse. when the United States left it. The treaty did not get any land and impressment did stop so the US got what it wanted and the British were probably no longer interested so it seems to be a no gain for both sides. China attacked and advanced, then a cease fire was called by both sides. The War of 1812 was fought between the United States and the United Kingdom. The British historians would seem to be saying that the successful defense of Canada was a gain! The American army was forced on the defensive from the offensive basis which it began on, which is a major aim in any war; if you are attacked, the best way to end the war is to turn it the other way around; you are the one giving the enemy hell rather than vice versa.

Truform Tiny Homes For Sale, Florida Club Summer Membership, Rights Of A Nurse In The Hospital, Boston Calling 2023 Parking, House For Sale In Mine Hill, Nj, Vhf Simplex Frequencies, 3590 State Hwy 265, Branson, Mo 65616, Church Northwest Highway Dallas, Is Blepharitis Contagious To Others,